A leak down will tell you where your problem is, if you have one, but some really good ring packs will not leak too good and make more power . Total Seal makes 2 types of gapless rings. Further, for high boost levels, the moly rings are unsatisfactory, as it is easily I have seveal engines that are running well with both conventional and Gapless rings. The shape of the top ring is designed strictly for compression and leakage is an absolute minimum. Gapless top ring sets make power all the way up to infinity. I asked him how they worked (please forgive my translation, i'm not a technical kinda guy). Total seal piston rings. Great rings I have used them since 1967 in all my SBC, FORD and BBC built up engines, had them in my Briggs Flathead also, ran them 4 seasons before replacing. Style and options depending on the application. . So they sent my rings back and got top rings. Switched to a new standard pump. If the honing is not matched up properly to type and material, you increase the chances of your rings not seating properly, something you most definitely want to avoid. I have only run the car on the stands but I noticed cyl #2 let a shot of oil out when I brought the rpm to 4000 but then it quit?? you should have no issues using these. LOUMAR. https://totalseal.com (800) 874-2753. Blow-by is a thief. Return this item for free. I recommend using the partial gapless ring set. Warranty. Everything from motorcycles to 500 ton unit rigs (giant dump trucks). Ken. I would say most of the engine builders I have contact with use Total Seal rings. When the gapless ring is on the seond groove it causes to much pressure between the two rings and it makes the top ring unseat and puts all of the work on the second ring. Joined Jan 10, 2014 Total Seal M3690-65 Gapless 4.065" Bore Top Piston Ring Set . Total seal and other companys offer tool steel rings as well, you just want to stay away from the gapless deal. They make many different versions both gap and gapless. I use Total Seal Piston Rings because of their superior ring seal qualities. New posts Search forums. I am told by Total Seal that you must use positive valve guide seals as the extra vacumm created will suck:dunno: oil by regular seals. Gapless rings on the other hand when newly installed typically show leak down figures of 2% and lower and should remain the same throughout the life of the engine. SBC 350 - Flat Top, 2.020/1.600 valve milled head. So get any rings you want and send them in for $90 as I recall. Press alt + / to open this menu . Low tension oil control rings should only be used on race type engines. Free returns are available for the shipping address you chose. If it rocks, it doesn't meet the face of the wall squarely as intended but instead on an angle. 91 coupe 358c 4v heads Buddy Rawls custom solid roller . In extensive dyno testing, use of quickseat conjunction with total seal gapless piston rings allowed for leakage rates to be 0-1 after about 5 minutes break-in time on the engine. The latest info that I have seen is that a gapless ring is run in a special low friction piston with either a single gapless ring or a piston where the second ring is the gapless design. Im running the gapless total seals with no problems.-tyler . . 2011 was before vendors carried them. At high boost levels the top ring is the gapless one, not the second ring. The result was extreme oil consumption (a qt of oil every hundred miles). The Total Seal Gapless Ring is the Ultimate Ring for these engines." David Reher Reher Morrison Racing Engines Brand: Total Seal-9% $275.39 $ 275. They slso recommended. Im getting ring gaps of .023 top ring and .029 second (gapless ring).whicn needless to say are huge, and this is the second set of rings from total seal i've gotten of the same size. The customer is using it almost every day up here in N.Y. in the nice weather. On 2002-12-19 13:36, blkfrd wrote: I'm using KBs and Sealed Power rings and I had an oil consumption problem. Besides, you don't race with the engine not running. Bobby Chessman of Total Seal says 90 percent of Pro-Stock drag racers are using his rings because of the advantages a gapless ring offers: namely, a reduction in leakdown of 10 to 20 percent over a conventional style piston ring. Happy is he who can discover the cause of things. . Total Seal, Gapless Top, Piston Rings, 4.030+5 Bore, File Fit, 1\/16 1\/16 3\/16 Ring Pak, Std Oil Tension. Gapless piston rings, should you use them on a daily driver?Want to learn more about performance engine building? the piston or ram under lateral loads. $235.99. Second Ring: 1.500 mm, Gapless. Leroy Diesel also sells gapless rings - aka rings sent to Total Seal for the gapless to be machined in. I've used them in a early Hemi build I did and will use them again in my SBM dirt late model engine. If anything the second ring should have a bit more . Member. California Prop 65 Warning: Bore Size: 4.060 in. These piston rings measure 1.5 x 2 x 4 mm. The Total Seal Advantage Total Seal is the leader in Piston Ring technology with the ability to meet whatever special needs you may have. Article Sources. Most People that have issues with total seal rings use the total gapless rings, the 1st and 2nd ring are both gapless. For those of you using Total Seal rings in your 3.8 turbo, are you using the total seal top ring or second ring for a street/strip application? In this [TECH TALK] Andre talks to Keith from Total Seal Piston Rings about their gapless rings, the. The end results vary dramatically. That little 461 cu.in BB Chevy delievered over 900 horses, so I was pretty much enamored with all the products I was using on that one, at that time. Problem being the lack of instructions in the box. Im wondering WTF is going on. No oil buring, smoke or obvious signs of issues, likely rings are still good. We recommended against it, due to the ring sizes, but he's not worried about it. Please try your search again later. $245.93. Having given the subject a lot of thought I. They are used for all aspects of Motorsports, Diesel, Industrial, Compressors and Aviation. the total seal secondary ring simply holds in slight amounts of blow by from the top ring that a normal engine sees . I would leave them for strictly race motors-I don't think they are good for a street car. Whether you have gapless rings, or standard, the Total Seal replacement piston rings are designed to keep the oil of out your cylinders and . The problem is that the ring moves around in the groove. www.sp-power.com HKS 3.4L: 1110 all-boost whp/839 lb-ft @ 2.6KG/CM^2 1994 "SP ENGINEERING" TWIN HKS GT3240 TOYOTA SUPRA TURBO 1985 Toyota Celica Supra P-Type 5MT I've already done a bit of searching in older posts here, but didn't find what I thought was an answer to my subject line question: If "gapless" top rings don't work, why not? and that looses pressure. David Reher Reher Morrison Racing Engines I am fussier than most. Make sure this fits by entering your model number. Page 12 AP Ultra-Thin Piston Ring Packs. But on the downside, I put them in my new 347, and that pig sucks a qt of oil every 200-300 mi. I have just bought a Total Seal second ring to go with my 8.5:1 pistons. I use Total Seal almost exclusively, but I never touch a gapless, top or second, with a ten foot pole. In this [TECH TALK] Andre talks to Keith from Total Seal Piston Rings about their gapless rings, the. Also, they increase cylinder scuffing/wear and require a periodic inspection/replacement. Is it because of what Grumpy stated 30 years ago about how there has to be a little blow-by past the top ring to create the pressure differential that draws the oil . Interior & Accessories. Leory's gapless ring set worked well in . This piston ring set features Total Seal's gapless ring technology in combination with a low friction design for better responsiveness and more horsepower. The ring gap (left) is one such path. Mar 19, 2014. I was told by my engine builder last week, that they talked to Total Seal earlier in the year at a trade convention, and they said they have acheived 11-13 hp on the dyno on turbo buick motors from using the gapless rings on the top ring vice the second ring. These are not the gapless style but conventional. Working on a buddies truck now and he ordered total seal gapless rings. Return this item for free. NOT even for Endurance race events (12/24 hour races) They WILL let enough oil by to be a oil burning/useage issue for a long term useage. Price: $402.99: Enhance your purchase This fits your . . All I run now is their traditional gapped rings. And I guarantee, the rings will seal better with cylinder pressure. Finally, it had to be ring seal. Sep 18, 2005. blodgee said: :dunno: I was thinking of using gapless piston rings by Total Seal and wanted to know if anyone here knows anything about them or has used them? Gapless Ring Type: 655 Ring Face: Moly . You'll hear enough momentarily on Gapless Vs. standard rings without my input, but if a hypothetical 3% = 27 HP for $145, or ~ $5/HP is too rich for your blood, $500.00 Claimer engines might be a better choice. . View Details. Jump to. I contacted totalseal.com today and spoke with one of their guys. All I run now is their traditional gapped rings. Just like everything, rings definitely . Not a problem, Total seal offers single replacement top, send and oil rings. Gapless rings have a tendancy of trapping blowby between the top and second ring. New posts Search forums. Gapless rings on the other hand when newly installed typically show leak down figures of 2% and lower and will should remain the same throughout the life of the engine. For more information on Total Seal's Gapless Rings, visit them online at www.totalseal.com. When using the gapless second ring it does all the above but not as well. These piston rings are a must for hard core racers, high powered street machines or extreme off road dirt slingers. bigjoe1 Show Guest Posts: 6199 Total Seal Gapless Claimer Piston Ring Set. unles the top ring is worn and in that case a normal ring set would perform even worse as the blow by into the crank case would be erry . Contact a "Total Seal Piston Rings" dealer for sizes and application. I changed the rings to Total Seal's with nothing else but a cylinder hone, and it cured the oil burning. There are several leak paths in a standard piston ring setup. Blair Patrick. $245.93. The issue of where to set piston ring end gaps is moot if you are using a gapless style top piston ring. Office Chairs; PROCAR Classic Series 1500; #1. As the Total Seal ring wears, the gap stays sealed, even after dozens of grueling races. Problems / Consequences of mod. I was reading about some problems with crankcase pressure when running a zero gap second ring do you think I will have the same problem with the TOP being a zero gap? Thread starter 6ohstroker; Start date Mar 19, 2016; Mar 19, 2016 #1 6ohstroker New member. Thread starter 6ohstroker; Start date Mar 19, 2016; Mar 19, 2016 #1 6ohstroker New member. The Gapless rings most of the time include Low Tension Oil control rings (not gapless) along with the top and second gapless rings. Longer ring life. By the way it was 2nd Ring Gapless Total Seal Red Head rings. The Total Seal Gapless Ring is the Ultimate Ring for these engines. The Total Seal Gapless ring solves the problem. Total Seal direct. They include AP Advanced Profiling Steel top rings, ductile iron Napier 2nd rings (in most sets where available) and standard . The ring set discussed here in this engine is direct from Total Seal via Jegs. Our Total Seal Piston Ring sets are surplus or obsoleted inventory that have been purchased from top NASCAR teams. : . Oil Ring: 4.000 mm, Gold Power Low Tension. i have had only one issue.. and that is detonation in the top ring land. Small Block. Free returns are available for the shipping address you chose. I live and die by the blow by meter. There was a problem completing your request. The top compression ring is the only gapless ring. I have run the gapless once. The Total Seal rings are very thick so they need the increased tension compared to the OEM or CP style rings which are much thinner and low tension. Their superior sealing and conformability are characteristics that we demand for our engines. When this happens, it unseats the top ring (bad) and you lose ring seal and power. Its not uncommon to see engine blocks and cylinder sleeves ranging in hardness from approximately 150 to over 300 on the brinell scale. Jones explained, "In a race application where you're getting into high cylinder pressures, detonation can become a problem, boost can be a problem, nitrous can be a problem and it will blow that coating off the ring." Reason was an intake leak into the lifter galley. CALL US NOW: (800)341-1528 HELP CENTER. Gapless Claimer Piston Ring Set. Not just the gapless 2nd or gapless 1st rings most probably know them for. California Prop 65 Warning: our combo Blown alky SBC 25-30psi boost 4.125 . Total Seal MS AP Advanced Profiling ring sets feature gapless top rings, conventional second rings, and standard-tension oil rings. Gapless rings solve this problem with two-part interlocking rings to close gaps and to improve piston-cylinder seals. Set Seal Bore Total TS1 1.0x1.2x2.8M Ring T3327XX 3.327 Gapless Total Seal has moved away from these coatings as they tend to have problems with adhesion in high performance applications. The pistons have a lower top utilizing thinner rings (down to .6mm) that reduce friction and wear while maintaining a nearly perfect seal. List Price: $303.81 $303.81 & FREE Returns . Saves money (fewer teardowns) Improved consistenny. HELPFUL TIPS FOR RING FITTING . Aparently the gapless ring creates a vacum on the down stroke, pulling in more fuel and. SBC 350 Flat top X Style Forgings - Heavy Duty. Longer engine life. I prefer the gapless top ring from total seal. Letting the blow by go thru the engine (to a certain point) promotes better ring seal and will help from lifting the ring lands on the piston. It's an old N20 trick that i have just suck with over the years with no problems. Tuning Pro Comp Engine. Engine builders do not recommend gapless rings for street use. 39. You can return the item for any reason in new and unused condition: no shipping charges . There was a . ok thanks guys, so the consensus is the gapless is definitely not worth it. Total Seal MS8264-5 Gapless AP Seal Race Piston Ring Set Brand: Total Seal. yes and i understand about the buick v6 being somewhat special. Total Seal MS AP Advanced Profiling ring sets are ideal for street, race, mild nitrous, and mild forced induction applications. only this one gives me this puzzle. My advice is never use new oil control rings unless the block has been bored and honed at the machine shop, the cast iron rings are fine (new or used), they break in quite quickly but those damn oil control rings are another story.